Under Construction
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The Teachers of Lies Still Under Construction.... (they're still creating new errors!) A strange phenomenon has occurred to this 666 count research; Two individuals have on the one hand, espoused the 666 count as valid, yet while they are seemingly promoting it, on the other hand, they are mingling it with many corruptions, and have resulted in producing a very different and opposing outcome that is seriously deceptive. The application of the Laodicean remedy is in order to correctly discern the truth. The Spiritual eyesalve that man needs to understand the truth for these final days, and escape the deceptions ever present about us, is obtained by buying gold purged of its dross. Revelation 2 1. Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; 2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: Though Ron and Wendell have espoused the 666 research in its most basic form, they have ignored the progression in revealing the truth and in its relation to other passages of prophecy as it unfolded, and they interjected their own error into this 666 research. They even came complete with their own "prophecy" that predicted that there would be a split in their relationship with me. They have mingled many of their errors into this precious truth, and they are the cause of the split that they predicted would occur.
(Acts 20:30, 31.) I would say to our dear brethren who have been
so eager to accept everything that came in the form of visions and dreams,
Beware that you be not ensnared. Read the warnings that have been given
by the world's Redeemer to His disciples to be given again by them to
the world. The Word of God is
solid rock,
and we may plant our feet
securely upon it. Every soul must needs be tested, every faith and doctrine
must needs be tried by the law and the testimony. Take heed that no
man deceive you. The warnings of Christ on this matter are needed at
this time; for delusions and deceptions will come in among us,
and will
multiply as we near the end.
{7BC 952.3} In demanding from them a Scriptural basis for their new claims, they have never responded. They have ever tried to weasel into reasoning with me by invoking questions to me regarding their visions and their interpretation of dreams. They have never attempted to show me my error in what I disagree with them. I have asked them to show me where I am wrong and how. This also was never answered by either of them. Their error is the interpretation of the seven heads of the dragon (not the beast) of Revelation 12, that they are also the same as the seven heads of the beast. They assert that there is no given "explanation in Revelation 12 of the seven heads of the dragon, and an explanation "must" be found in some "subsequent" text of Scripture, and the only "seven head" explanation is that given in Revelation 17. They surmise then on this "evidence" and have made these new "rules" that require a "forward progression" and "an explanation of a vision is always forthcoming in a forward passage of Scripture". They further alienate themselves from the truth, when in the effort to sustain this view, puffed up in their own pride, they have ignored the very basic knowledge in all of the rest of the Scripture that pertain to this dragon, and how the Bible makes this identity with Satan and with Rome, and they have employed these rules of their own, without once showing that their "rule" is a valid one, that is employed already in some other use of interpretation of another passage of Scripture. They provide no evidence of its prior use in other interpretations, nor propose that it is used in any passage, other than what they have made for their use. Their rule is demonstrated by them to be only used in supporting their own errors. By this they do not speak according to the Word. Rules of Interpretation of Prophecy After searching the internet for the best sites that gave credible information regarding rules of interpretation, I found about seven suitable sites and extracted from among these, the rules and other guidelines that are credible. This is by no means an authoritative list, nor comprehensive. Here they are; Rule # 1 . Applied to Bible study, rules are nothing more than a means of disciplining the mind by which we allow the Bible to mean what it must mean, not what "we" want it to mean. Ron and Wendell's rules are in violation of this first rule. The Biblical Rule of Two Witnesses for Establishing Truth
Isaiah 43 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Matthew 26
2Corinthians 13
1Timothy 5
Hebrews 10 ``Upon the testimony of two or more witnesses...'' Wendell and Ron claim to tell us what they think is the truth, and they claim also the perogative to make the rules:
To show the example of one of their rules in error;
Rule # 2 . A verse can only mean what it means in its context and must not be pulled out of its context. When it is pulled out of context, it is often presented as meaning something that it cannot mean within the context. Ron's application of the dragon's heads as being explained in Revelation 17 is pulling it completely out of context. There is absolutely no reference to the dragon or the dragon's seven heads in Revelation 17. Rule # 3 . Many times another passage will shed light on the obscure passage and bring forth a sudden revelation of understanding. We know more than one instance in which this had happened. However, one word of caution is in order at this point. Such a practice can be overdone by "forcing" comparisons that are not relative. (similar to rule #2) Ron has forced the comparison of the seven heads of the dragon to be the same as those on the beast. Rule # 4 . The Ultimate Test: Of course, no prophetic expositor can prove his or her predictions about the future. It is impossible to prove the accuracy of a conclusion before it happens. The most direct method to test a prediction for accuracy, is to record the prediction before the event comes to pass. Then, when the predicted event occurs, ordinary people can judge the accuracy of the prediction. This simple procedure allows an impartial jury of observers to decide which predictions and interpretations are accurate by simply noting the presence or absence of events which have been predicted. Ron has stated that Benedict XVI will change his name, thus becoming the final "1" to complete the count to 666. Observe... it will not happen. Rule # 5 . The book of Daniel was written about 26 centuries ago, but unlike the other 65 books in the Bible, some of the prophecies in the book of Daniel were sealed up "until the time of the end." The angel, Gabriel, said to Daniel, ". . . Go your way, Daniel, because the words are closed up and sealed until the time of the end." (Daniel 12: 9) What does "closed up and sealed until the time of the end" mean? It means that certain information in the book of Daniel remains "top secret" until the time of the end arrives. My study of Bible prophecy has brought me to the conclusion that we are living chronologically "at the time of the end." If this conclusion is true, the time has come for the secrets of Daniel to be unveiled. (I have had these same thoughts; That if we are at the time of the end, as near as many say we are, then these elements contained in the prophecies, must be able to show that there are corresponding fulfillments already within our recent history.) God embedded secrets in the book of Daniel a long time ago. These secrets have remained hidden within the text of Daniel for almost 26 centuries. Now that we have come to the time of the end, it is time for the secrets of Daniel to be opened. No one can know the truth about some of Daniel’s prophecies until all of the necessary information is unsealed. The book of Daniel was sealed up until the time of the end; therefore, only those people who live at the time of the end can know the truth about Daniel’s prophecies. Rule # 6 . When God decides to disclose a truth or open to us its understanding, He enables ordinary men and women to discover what He has hidden. Through the ages we find this process at work: On or about the time of fulfillment, elements of prophecy are understood. For example, when it came time to understand the timing of Christ’s birth, the wise men from the East figured it out. (Matthew 2: 2) The apostle Paul also noticed this phenomenon. Consider his words: "Surely you have heard about the administration of God’s grace that was given to me for you, that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus." (Ephesians 3: 2 - 6) In Daniel 3, we read about Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego facing a mandatory requirement to worship a golden image set up by the king of Babylon. In Revelation 13: 15 we read about the inhabitants of the world facing a mandatory requirement to worship an image set up by the king of modern Babylon. These dramatic stories of faith were recorded in Daniel to benefit all generations, but especially for the final generation! Rule # 7 . Often, two or more prophecies describe the same event. Because of this, precise alignment of the prophecies is not only possible, but essential to understanding the big picture. Together they are the events that unite the 18 prophecies in Daniel and Revelation into one grand story. God has revealed things to come, by visions, in figures and parables; and in this way the same things are oftentimes revealed again and again, by different visions, or in different figures and parables. If you wish to understand them, you must combine them all in one. Psalm 89: 19; Hosea 12: 10; Habakkuk 2: 2; Acts 2: 17; 1 Corinthians 10: 6; Hebrews 9: 9, 24; Psalm 78: 2; Matthew 13: 13, 34; Genesis 41: 1 - 32; Daniel 2, 7, 8; Acts 10: 9 - 16 Rule # 8 . This statement is critical: Rules are not invented; rather, man may only discover the presence or operation of rules by repeatedly testing the architecture which God created. We detect the presence of a rule when we recognize a consistent behavior or architecture. After finding the presence of a rule, it becomes necessary to carefully state the rule so that the behavior can be independently validated by others. When you see an unfamiliar rule that appears to be invented just to support a particular interpretation, or it is applied to one use only, it is not a legitimate rule.
Look at the many "invented" rules that Ron and Wendell have produced. They do not exist anywhere else, and were never seen nor heard of before they posted them: Rule # 9 . To know whether we have the true historical event for the fulfillment of prophecy: if you find every word of the prophecy (after the figures are understood) is literally fulfilled, then you may know that your history is the true event; but if one word lacks a fulfillment, then you must look for another event, or wait its future development; for God takes care that history and prophecy shall agree, so that the true believing children of God may never be ashamed. Psalm 21: 5; Isaiah 14: 17 - 19; 1 Peter 2: 6; Revelation 17: 17; Acts 3: 18
Rule # 10 . And in applying such rules, and after arriving at an understanding... "The most important rule of all is, that you must have faith. It must be a faith that requires a sacrifice, and, if tried, would give up the dearest object on earth, the world and all its desires--character, living, occupation, friends, home, comforts, and wordly honors. If any of these should hinder our believing any part of God's word, it would show our faith to be vain. Nor can we ever believe so long as one of these motives lies lurking in our hearts. We must believe that God will never forfeit his word; and we can have confidence that He who takes notice of the sparrow's fall, and numbers the hairs of our head, will guard the translation of His own word, and throw a barrier around it, and prevent those who sincerely trust in God, and put implicit confidence in His word, from erring far from the truth, though they may not understand Hebrew or Greek.
end of rules
Akin to this error of theirs, is another that tries to align the source of the count of the number to the ancient Babylonian method. It is a "simple" thing to understand that the heads are mountains, and that the numbers derived from them form a set of numbers that can be counted according to the natural laws of mathematics. For them to attach this to the ancient Babylonian system, is taking the process of explaining a simple concept and turning it into a complex diatribe, that comes complete with a host of new rules that you nor anyone else in the history of this earth has ever heard of before, that serve only to introduce more errors into this 666 research. They have defined "mountains" to the point of ad nauseum, and obviously beyond the contextual intent of the prophecy. The most important thing that I have ever done in my life, has been corrupted by these two usurpers, who claim to support it. The have demonstratedly corrupted something of this research throughout their involvement, from the very inception of the finding of the future antipope which preceded their knowledge of this research by 3 years, to the latest standing opposition of the identity of Benedict XVI, claiming that he is the antichrist, when he is identified by this prophecy as an antipope. No, I cannot bear them that are evil. Their corruptions are deadly. Here is their whole effort at proving their dragon head interpretation;
Their "PowerPoint Presentation, was downloaded (unedited) from their website, and it is
presented here in text only. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Revelation 12:1 – And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: Verse 2 – And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered Crown of 12 stars represents the leadership of the new church ( 12 Apostles ) Woman is clothed with the sun representing New Testatment times after Christ. Moon Represents the old Testament times prior to Christ. The twelve stars are interpreted in Genesis 37, where Joseph's dreams employ the exact same elements of the Sun, Moon and Twelve Stars; 9 And he dreamed yet another
dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more;
and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
The twelve stars that were present about the woman when she was about to be delivered were the twelve tribes of Israel. This was the heritage of the woman in the days of her child. page 2 Notice the forward motion in time as seen in symbols of the woman standing on the moon she is clothed with the sun and wears a crown of 12 stars. Ron changes the "order" here to reflect his views: Remember the "Biblical" order of 1. Sun; 2. Moon; 3. Stars, he has changed to; 1. Moon; 2. Sun; 3. Stars. a Crown of 12 stars represents the leadership of the new Gospel church in the 12 apostles. The woman was clothed with the sun, representing the glory of the Gospel times. This next paragraph is total BUNK! Ron... the "sun"??? get real!The woman stands on the moon and is clothed with the sun. As the moon shines by reflected sunlight, so the Old Testament reflects the glory of Christ, who is the “sun” of the New Testament. The Old Testament is but a shadow of things to come, which is the body of Christ (the New Testament). God set up ceremonies in the old Testament times designed to help people remember that Christ was to come as the Messiah and die for their sins. These were shadowy types (symbols) of the reality to come, which was the body of Christ (think of a person standing in the sunlight and the shadow the body of this person casts on the ground because of the sunlight). page 3 The forward motion in time is represented with this symbol in a manner similar to how the beasts of Daniel are done, but in the opposite direction to that of the image of Daniel 2. Here the earlier times are represented by the lower parts of the symbol (the moon with the feet standing on it), while the later times are represented by the body and head symbolism (the sun for clothing and the crown of stars upon the head). page 4 The woman herself is a familiar symbol to the Jewish people of John’s day. God made reference to the people as his wife in Isaiah 54:5 Ephesians 5:23 makes reference to Christ as the head of the church as the man is head of his wife. This indirectly compares Christ to being the husband of the church, which makes the church his “wife”. Revelation 19:7 – 8 makes it clear that those who are the saints are the bride of Christ, thus comparing them to a pure woman who is clothed with righteousness. Revelation 21 makes reference to the New Jerusalem as the bride, but in Bible symbols, the city is often seen as the symbol of the people who live there. Thus, this would be seen as a symbol of the saints who are going to live there in the earth made new, which in turn would be the bride of Christ just as much as the city itself. Thus, it is logical to conclude that the pure woman of Revelation 12 is in fact the church from the time of Jesus onward. page 5
The next slide shows that the vision places the reader far back in history, before the creation of life on this world, with the dragon appearing and taking a third of the angels (stars – see Revelation 1:20) of heaven with his tail. page 6 Rev 12:3 - And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. Verse 4 - And this tail drew the third of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: page 7 Rev 12:4 - And the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. page 8
Notice where the previous slide locates the reader in time – at the birth of Jesus! It is very important to notice this point. So, time has moved far forward from the previous verse. The child this woman gives birth to must represent Jesus because it says he is caught up to the throne of God. No other person could fulfill that role. page 9 Revelation 12:5 - And she brought forth a man child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: page 10 Revelation 12:5 - And her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. page 11 Now notice where in time the vision locates the reader in verse 5 (previous slide) – after the death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus into heaven.
The next verse, covered in the next slide, moves the reader hundreds of years into the future during the 1260 days/years. page 12 Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. page 13
The next verse, shown in the next slide, moves the reader back to the beginning of sin in heaven, before the creation of life on earth, and gives a very brief history. More information on this can be found in an allegory of Satan through the character of the king or princes of Tyre in Ezekiel 28. page 14 Rev 12:7 - And there was war in heaven: Michael and His angel’s fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Verse 8 - and prevailed not; neither was there a place found any more in heaven. Verse 9 - And the dragon was cast out, that old serpent called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. page 15 The next verse informs the reader that in spite of this battle between evil and good, the good has triumphed by the death of Christ, and salvation is now available to all who will accept it. Satan was defeated by Jesus at the cross, and as a result, has been once and for all sent away from the presence of God, where he constantly accused the people of God for their sins. page 16 Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: For the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. page 17 Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death page 18 Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and of the sea! For the devil is come down unto you , having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. page 19 Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. (Pagan Rome persecuting the christians!) page 20 Question: When did the dragon come to understand that he was “cast out” of heaven? Before answering the question above, consider that the immediate result of Satan’s discovery was that he began persecuting the woman. page 21 The answer to the question on the previous slide is found in verse 13. Note that it said the dragon persecuted the woman who “brought forth the man child”, which is Jesus. Thus, this discovery had to occur AFTER the cross. Revelation 12 shows us that there are two events of casting Satan out of heaven. The first casting out is when Satan and his angels are physically removed from heaven so that they no longer have a home there. By causing man to sin, they found a home on this world. But they continued to have access to God and the other beings in heaven. Evidence for this is found in Job 1 – 2, Revelation 12:7 – 9, and Ezekiel 28 (an allegory of Satan). The second casting out occurred when Satan was blocked from access to God and the angels inside heaven itself. Evidence for this is found in Revelation 12:10 – 13. page 22 Questions to ponder: Why would Satan no longer be allowed access to God and other beings inside of heaven after the cross? And why would this happen only after the cross? Why was his access to God and the other beings in heaven not blocked long before the cross? page 23 Note that in the next verse, covered in the next slide, as a result of the persecution that the woman experiences, she flees to the wilderness for 1260 prophetic days. The 1260 days began in 538 AD. There is persecution BEFORE the 1260 days begins. But the legal power brought against the woman (explained later), which defined the start and end of the 1260 prophetic days, is what causes her to hide in the wilderness. page 24 Rev 12:14 - And to the woman were given two wings of an eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the servant. (1260 years page 25 Revelation 12:15 - And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. page 26 Rev 12:16 - And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. page 27 Ten commandments God gave Moses on Mt. Sinai. Woman represents God’s true people.
Dragon is Satan the devil working through political powers to destroy God’s people. Rev 12:17 - And the dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her seed that keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. page 28 Notice the forward motion in time with the body of the dragon. First comes the tail as it drags 1/3 of the stars from heaven, representing that Satan took 1/3 of the angels in heaven with him. The war began in heaven (Revelation 7-9) so the tail represents the time period from the time sin originated in heaven and probably extending to Pagan and Papal Rome. page 29 After 1/3 of the angels are cast out of heaven, the dragon (Satan) is cast to earth (this is the first casting out). Later he attempts to kill Christ at birth through Pagan Rome at the time of Herod. Rev 12:4. Next, after being permanently cast out of heaven (the second casting out), Satan attempts to destroy the church of God during the time of the apostles through Pagan Rome as he persecuted the church that brought forth the man child. Rev 12:13. page 30 In time, after Pagan Rome came Papal Rome. Papal Rome, just like Pagan Rome, proved to be a persecutor of Christians, and also did so at the instigation of Satan (Revelation 12:13 – 16; 13:2). Satan was given the credit for what Pagan and Papal Rome did, because what they did, Revelation 12 and 13 says the dragon did. Satan instigated them to do certain things, but he was given the credit for what they did because of his role. Of course, nobody saw him personally doing any of the things he is given credit for doing (such as standing in front of the woman to snatch the child). Consequently, at least part of the body of the dragon represents the time during which Satan instigated these powers to persecute the woman. This must be true because the tail represented the time of war in heaven and the heads and horns represent time that follows Papal Rome (1798), so the body must represent time between that of the tail and the heads and horns. The dragon is the only prophetic beast in either Daniel or Revelation in which the tail plays a symbolic part. God’s people flee into the wilderness for 1260 years as the Papal power is decreed by law (Justinian’s decree written in 533 AD) from 538-1798. page 31 The woman fled into the wilderness for 1260 prophetic years where she was to be nourished away from the face of the serpent (the dragon does NOT follow her into the wilderness). The 1260 prophetic years is mentioned 7 times in Daniel and Revelation because it is so significant. But how do we know when it began and ended? Daniel 7 tells us the following criteria are to be used to determine the starting date: The dreadful 4th beast of Daniel 7 made the transition to the 10 horns. This happened in 476 AD when Rome fell. This also gives us a reference date by which to judge the events that are to follow. The little horn arises AFTER the 10 horns begin to have power. Three of the ten horns were uprooted through the influence of the little horn on the head of the dreadful and terrible beast. The Arians, who opposed the pope, were the Vandal’s, Heruli, and Ostrogoths. To eliminate opposition to the pope, these three were removed. The Heruli were removed from Rome in 493 AD. The Vandals were destroyed as a people in 533 AD. The Ostrogoths were removed from Rome in 538 AD, and mostly destroyed as a people in 556 AD. The saints were to be given into the hand of the little horn for a period of 1260 prophetic days. Historically, the decree of Justinian, written in 533 and implemented in 538, gave the pope the power required by the prophecy. The exact powers given were that the pope became head bishop over all Christian bishops and he had the power to punish heresy, which he defined as he wished and punished through the state. page 32 Note the following. A decree began the 1260 years. Though that decree was written in 533 AD, it could not be implemented until Justinian controlled Rome and his decree could be enforced by the pope at will outside of Rome, a condition that became possible in 538 AD when the Ostrogoths gave up their siege of Rome and were driven away. Logically, if a decree begins the 1260 prophetic years, a decree should also end this prophetic period. This is exactly what happened. The French army under the command of General Berthier, stormed Rome and took it on February 10, 1798, and on February 15, 1798, General Berthier wrote a decree ending the civil government of the Papacy. This largely ended the control the Papacy had over the kings of Europe and it’s ability to persecute “heretics”. Prior to the 1798 decree, as head of the church to which all the European kings belonged, the pope had control of the kings of Europe, but that decree ended this control. So, a decree began the 1260 prophetic years and a decree ended this time period. Each time you see this 1260 days in Scripture (which may be written as 1260 days, 42 months, or a time, times, and half a time or 3 ½ - 360 day prophetic years), remember that it refers to the decreed rule of the Papal power from 538 - 1798. page 33 Something to think about: What does the wilderness symbolize in Revelation 12 and 17? Answer: both the wilderness and the abyss symbolize a prison, or a restraint upon a power. Why this is true will be covered in another study. But, you don’t need your Greek-English dictionary to understand the wilderness and abyss. The Bible defines these terms for you. page 34 Revelation 12, 13, and 17 have 3 beasts which each have seven heads and ten horns upon their heads. There is only one explanation of the seven heads and ten horns in all of Revelation, and that is in Revelation 17. Since there is only one explanation, the heads and horns must be the same on all three beasts. IF this is not true, then you have the explanation of the heads and horns for only one beast, and are left to guess the interpretation of the other two. With something so very important, do you honestly believe that God intends us to guess at the interpretation of the heads and horns of the other two beasts? Given that the dragon is credited with the activities of Pagan and Papal Rome, does it not stand to reason that he would also receive credit for the heads and horns of the other beasts as well? Thus his heads and horns are the same as their heads and horns. All three sets of heads and horns are one and the same! page 35 1798 ends the phase of the Papacy’s decreed power. For 1260 years the Papacy has ruled under the power given to it by the decree of Justinian, written in 533 and becoming effective in 538. In 1798, God restrained the Papacy’s power. About this same time, America was coming to power as pilgrims fled to America for religious freedom. Daniel 7 tells us that the little horn will be in power for 1260 years. It calls this little horn a “king”, just like the other 10 kings. This is God’s definition. But this horn remained a king only until 1798, at which time his dominion was removed (Daniel 7:24 – 26). By 1798, this king, or horn, had passed it’s time in history and was no longer in power. A new day of history had dawned upon Europe, and the one king of the Papacy was replaced by 7 kings. Again, this is God’s definition. Note also that Daniel 7 defines a king to be a line of kings. See Daniel 7:24 and remember that each of the 10 kings (except for the three removed) started a line of kings that went on for a number of generations. This same definition should be used where “kings” occurs in Revelation for the Bible should explain itself. page 36 After the decreed end of the Papal power in 1798, then comes the time of the seven heads of the Papal power. The names of those seven heads of papal power were: 1. Pius 2. Leo 3. Gregory 4. Benedict 5. John 6. Paul 7. John Paul Crowns on the heads symbolizes that the heads have kingly power, while their presence on the dragon indicates that the dragon dominates or controls the heads during their time of power During the phase of the 7 Papal Monarchy names above, we will see a separation of church and state. But when the 7th Papal name since 1798 dies and we see the church elect an 8th Papal name, then history will change again and the last church and state system will rise onto the world’s stage. This last church and state system is represented in prophecy by the 10 horns on the dragon. page 37 The ten horns on the dragon represents the time when war is made on the remnant of God’s people Rev 12:17. Again the Bible explains the Bible as we see in Revelation 17. The ten horns are a confederation of protestants that give their power and authority to the Papal power to make war on God’s people. We see this war in Revelation 13 as the earth beast (USA) enforces worship of the first beast (papal). Here we see Sunday as the child of the Papal power. The entire world is commanded to worship the Papal beast in the form of Sunday law enforcement. You will not be able to buy or sell, and finally a death decree is passed against all who refuse to obey. The entire world is to come against all who refuse to honor Sunday. This same war occurs in Revelation 17 when the 10 horns give their power to the scarlet beast. But, Revelation 17 adds one more detail: Jesus will win this war. page 38 The dragon as a whole represents Satan. The parts, such as the tail, primarily represents different time periods of his kingdom. Secondarily, the body and the heads and horns represents kingdoms for which Satan receives credit for their activities, such as Pagan and Papal Rome. The tail represents the time from the creation of Satan to the casting out of heaven of Satan and the angels who joined him in his rebellion against God. The body primarily represents Satan's history from the time of being cast out of heaven to 1798. Secondarily, it also represents worldly kingdoms who oppose God up to and including Pagan and Papal Rome to 1798. The heads represent the 7 Papal names that occur after 1798. The 7 crowns are kings who are under the control of the dragon (popes are king!) The 10 horns are yet future and represent Protestant Religions who wil give their power and seat to the beast (Papal Rome). page 39 Which side will you be on in the last conflict? Your eternal destiny will be in the balance when that time arrives. Just before Jesus comes again, the last conflict between Christ and Satan will take place, an event soon to occur. There won’t be much time to decide once that time comes. The 8th, as the Bible calls the last pope, will not live out his natural lifespan, but will die when Jesus come again.
So, if the Holy Spirit moves you to accept the offer of salvation from Jesus today, please accept it - now. You will be glad you did!
end of Ron's PowerPoint Presentation of Revelation 12 It becomes obvious that this entire presentation is not used to disclose what the chapter is presenting, but to slant it in such a way as to create the appearance of being supporting of their errant dragon head theory. While claiming that Revelation 17 is the explanation of the dragon's seven heads, they make no reference to the text of Revelation 17 that is openly an elaboration of the detail of the beast's seven heads, and does not contain any mention of the dragon or reference the heads to anything other than the beast and the whore woman seated upon it. Revelation 17: 7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. This gives a direct reference to the explanation as being of the woman and the beast with the heads and horns. It does not even remotely make any reference to the dragon. If these passages of this prophecy were to support the identity of these heads as including those of the dragon, then it should bear some textual indication in reference to the dragon, but it does not. They ignore these Biblical evidences in favor of creating their own rules, that you will not find anywhere else, and used nowhere else and for no other purpose than to support their false interpretations. Here is an abridged summary of Revelation 12, showing first its chiastic structure, and its panoramic sweep through history and into the future with respect to the dragon and the conflict with this evil one.
A. The Ten Commandments in the Ark, in the Temple Rev 11: 19
Other Scriptures also reveal the identity of the dragon's seven heads and the entire prophecy of Daniel's visions merge with all the elements presented within the texts given in Revelation 12 and 13. According to the rule of "forward progression" the model of the dragon and its tail, body, seven heads and ten horns as I present it, is as follows; The tail is seen in Eden being called in Revelation 12: 9; "that old serpent" and its body is seen from the fall in Eden to the kingdom of Babylon, where prophecy begins to present four earthly kingdoms that among them have seven heads and ten horns. At the end of the Roman empire, it was divided into ten parts that form the dragon's ten horns. As Revelation shows the dragon giving its seat and power to the beast, Daniel shows the ten horns of the dragon, with three of them being plucked up by another eleventh horn. This coincides with the dragon giving its seat and power to the beast. The timeframes of each of these prophecies; Daniel, with the four beasts and the fourth with the ten horns all coincide with the timeframes of the dragon and the beast of Revelation 12, 13 and 17. This entire scenario played out in the prophecies is rejected by Ron and Wendell, as the Biblical interpretation of the dragon's seven heads. It was not necessary that I produce an interpretation of the dragon's seven heads, and I have not given Revelation 12 an interpretation, rather, the interpretation that I hold to, was one that was already done, and well articulated by Elder William G Johnsson, Editor of the Adventist Review; ``However, as William G. Johnsson states, the seven heads of the dragon represent `the kingdoms through which Satan has worked to oppress God's people throughout the ages.' It is significant that the beasts of Daniel 7 have together seven heads and ten horns in total.'' The Revelation of Jesus Christ, Ranko Stefanovic 2002 p. 404 ``However, while the dragon had the seven crowns on his heads, the beast has ten crowns on his horns. We saw earlier that the seven crowns on the dragon's heads denote Satan's false claim of full authority and power over the world.'' The Revelation of Jesus Christ, Ranko Stefanovic 2002 p. 405 I do not need to create any new rules of interpretation to support the interpretation I hold to, simply because the Bible speaks for itself. Regardless of the confusion that is found in the interpretation of the identity of the beast's seven heads, it is nearly unanimously held that these kingdoms from Babylon to Rome are the representations of the dragon's seven heads and ten horns. The same is true in regard to the sun moon and stars given in symbols at the beginning of Revelation 12. The Bible has also already given the meaning of these twelve as the twelve tribes of Israel, and the moon and sun as the mother and father of Joseph who first had the dream. These were present at the birth of the Messiah, and the twelve apostles that Ron claims to be the interpretation, were not present at that time. He needs this interpretation to set up his deception of "forward progression." As obscure as the interpretation of the "Investigative Judgment" doctrine appears to be, it still presents with a "source text" that presents the initial concept, and is also found in other supporting passages. Ron's interpretation of the seven heads of the dragon, does not have any "source text" that give the initial indication that the dragon's heads are the same as the beast's, nor are there any other supportive texts for this idea. The rules that he has implemented in his attempt to create the appearance of having "Biblical" support, merely impose a foreign application to the use of Scripture, namely imposing the explanation given to the beast's seven heads as being the explanation also of the dragon's, since there is not an "apparent" explanation in Revelation 12 concerning them, so he imposes upon Revelation 17, from a "subsequent passage" as the explanation of the dragon's seven heads, regardless of the absense of any context of the dragon in that passage. He pulls chapter 17 completely out of its context, which is the explanation of the beast's seven heads, that not once mentions nor infers any reference to the dragon or his seven heads. As any serious student of Scripture would notice, not every vision of a prophecy is given an interpretation or an explanation or elaborated upon, in a subsequent passage of Scripture. Some prophetic visions are not explained at all. As I have also found that no Scripture that bears a particular meaning, stands alone in the Bible. The date of the time of the Investigative Judgment is found in two separate passages of Biblical prophecy. Ron's assertion of the identity rests solely upon his own rule of a forward progression imposed upon finding explanations in a subsequent passage of Scripture. There is no other support from any other reference or source. His "rule" renders one of the other primary rules of Scripture as incorrect, namely that other Scriptures are given to explain other Scriptures and are not confined to being aways found in a "subsequent" passage, but may also be found in a previous passage of Scripture. And such is the case with the identity of the dragon's seven heads; The previous prophecy in Daniel 7 that already employs the symbol of the dragon, and reveals seven heads present, ending with Rome, which is also confirmed and identified in Revelation 12, and continues into Revelation 13 that converge in the same timeframe as Daniel's vision. No other interpretation of any prophecy requires that its explanation is found in a subsequent passage. Their rule is created by them, solely for the purpose of inventing their own proofs, needed to sustain their corrupted interpretations.
Since "I" do not support their view, they seek to make their own rules, usurping (as they did to this research,) some of God's rules to make theirs appear legitimate. What you will see upon examination of their rules, are two types; Correct rules, and false rules. Ron also errs in how he applies his "forward" rule to include that an "explanation" is always given, and since he finds only one "seven head" explanation, he applies it to the dragon's seven heads, and TOTALLY disregards the very context of that explanation, and the fact that the dragon is not once mentioned nor referred to any way in Revelation 17, and the dragon is not part of that vision at all.
06-13-2005 I saw God did the same with John in Revelation. Revelation 12,13 and 17 were of the same rule in Daniel. Wendell sought to bring he and I together. Wendell is very intelligent and sought from an orderly manner to an understanding of Revelation 12. I did not see the 7 heads in Revelation (12) as 7 heads in Daniel 7. I wanted the Bible to explain the Bible, there was only one place that explained the 7 heads and that was Revelation 17, no other place in the Bible explained 7 heads. (Back up Ron.... Who made the assertion that the three chapters; 2, 7, and 8 of Daniel are to set the example of the three instances of beasts with seven heads in Revelation? Who has established that the dragon and the beast is the "same power"? Daniel may well have portrayed in three visions the same powers, but is that to be superimposed upon the structure of the events and issues in Revelation? Does Revelation 13 portray two powers, the dragon giving power to the beast? (yes) are they the same power? (no) Does the Bible indicate in any way that they seven heads of the beast are the same as those of the dragon? A BIG RESOUNDING NO! This "SOURCE TEXT" that I have asked them to provide, does not exist, and therefore, they cannot ever answer that question; What is the "SOURCE TEXT" that initiates this identity match? In order to avoid answering this, Ron once wrote "We already told you this before." The "SOURCE TEXT" is not on anything in all of their website. Wendell studied for about a year not taking sides with either him or myself. I prayed God please help Wendell to see what I am seeing in Revelation 12. My writing and sentence structure did not allow me to protray to Wendell what I understood. Wendell Called one day about a year later, I see it now Ron! Your right the 7 heads in Revelation 12 can only be explained by Revelation 17. Wendell has discovered Daniel has rules and they are applied to Revelation. I also noticed when Daniel or John were given visions, the beasts components covered the story of that particular vision, it never went outside the story!! When Revelation 12 covers the panorama of the conflict between Christ and Satan, spanning from Eden to the second coming, I find it hard to reflect on anything that could be "outside" of the story. The seven heads of the dragon did not need to be explained, because the time was already in the seventh head of the dragon when John was present. The "story" enters the time of Christ's birth at the time of the seventh head of the dragon; aka Rome. The dragon, aka Satan, {a Biblical ID factor} aka Rome, {a Biblical ID factor} has ten horns, and is itself the "seventh head" that sprouts eleven dragon's horns, {a Biblical ID factor}. It is obvious that he disagrees with what the Bible has already identified. He has managed to take hold of an issue and have chosen to disagree with what among all commentators have agreed upon that has ever made commentary on Revelation 12, that Rome is identified as the dragon, and the dragon's ten horns are the ten kingdoms of the broken Roman empire. Are all these commentators who are unanimous in agreement on Revelation 12 wrong? In Revelation 12 you have a dragon with a tail, 7 heads, 10 horns and crowns on the heads. The story is about Satan's fall starting with the tail, then moving forward from the tail to the body of the dragon, you have Pagan and Papal Rome as part of the story both persecuting God's people, Papal Rome specifically for 1260 years. We all know 1798 well ending the Papal beast rule. The 7 heads cover the time after 1798, notice satan still working behind the scenes through the church of Rome. During this time of the 7 heads, no war is made on God's people, but its clear that during the time of the 10 horns war is made again, during this time the 10 horns called kings give their power and authority to the beast to make war. In no place in the story of Revelation 12 is Babylon mentioned, are Medo Persia, or Greece. These Ancient kingdoms simply are not in the story, so I say stick with the story!! But Pagan and Papal Rome are part of the story. So in Revelation 12 we see satan cast out of heaven during the time of the dragons tail, then we move to the Dragons body were we see Pagan and Papal Rome, Papal Rome is given 1260 to rule, then comes the time of the 7 heads and lastly 10 horns as war is made. Wendell saw the rules and wrote it up for us to undestand. Notice Daniel 2, it goes from head, to breasts and arms, to thigh to legs to feet. Its forward motion in time. Each vision has this format!!
So my disagreement with him on the dragons heads in Revelation 12 caused Wendell to write these rules.
When Daniel wrote the visions of Daniel 2 (603 bc) and 7 (555 bc) and 8 (553 bc) he was within the kingdom of Babylon. In Daniel 6 (538 bc) the Medes and the Persians overcame Babylon. The progress of the chain of power was transferred through history according to the symbols of the visions, and each later vision is detailing more and more of the final events of the world, and say less of the beginnings from Babylon. John also portrays more last day details as his visions progress, but that does not convey the idea that all the powers represented by these symbols of the dragon and the beast are the same. The Bible clearly shows them to be different. Daniel 8: 23 - 25 also portrays the rise of the Roman Empire that shall "stand up against the Prince of princes" as John portrays the dragon standing before the woman ready to devour her child. Daniel's "king of a fierce countenance" is Rome. John shows the ruling power of the seven dragon heads by their crowns, and Daniel calls them "kings." This connected symbolism between Daniel and Revelation, show that John is portraying the same continuing details that Daniel had shown. Their prophecies completely overlap each other, with their symbols representing many of the same things. The dragon is not represented just by the kingdom of Rome during the time of Christ, but by every ruling kingdom that God had shown to Daniel.
In the final analysis, the applied test is: What does the interpretation Ron presents prove? Does it give a more clear insight into some theological truth? To what objective does it point to? And... I said that there would be more....
Sun, 10 July 2005 Your continued disregard for the integrity of the truth demonstrates that you are irresponsible, and are acting the part of a deceiver. Such behavior of brushing aside the differences is akin to being deliberately deceptive. Your last email has been no different than all others before it in demonstrating that you are still being deceptive, still pushing aside the responsible manner in handling the truth. To teach the truth, it must accomplish its purpose intact. If it is mingled with error, it cannot accomplish this objective. Therefore, it cannot be polluted with error, and accomplish its objective. To have a different conclusion than what another one has, then one of them must be in error. Your intention in not addressing this fact, adds to your list of "deceptions" that you have perpetrated (without so much as any admission on your part of having "screwed up" or have committed any wrongdoing on your part.) There are no serious theologians that would look at your teachings and see your rules and the application you give them, and continue to believe anything else you say. You are in blatant violation of such "rules of interpretation" that are common to all theologians, regardless of what denomination they are. Your conclusion is not the same as mine. Your failure to "point out" the errors that you think that I am teaching, places the guilt upon you of failing to correct your brother that you think is in error. The same cannot be said of me Ron, because I have pointed out to you the precise points where you are in error. You have never acknowledged one of them, nor defended them, nor answer to the charges. But I have let you know exaclty where you are in error. I respond to the issue of the things YOU have written that are in difference. You do not reply in regard to the question, but have always changed the topic to "harassment" or you brush it aside. Well Ron, the truth does not let those rest who are in error. Truth IS a harassment to those in error. Your errors are easily exposed, and my failure to inform those who find this research, of the errors and corruptions that have being foisted upon this research by you and Wendell. I would then be guilty of failing to warn my brethren of this "attack on the truth" coming from YOU. YOU are responsible for my "attack" against the errors that you teach.
Proverbs 14
Jeremiah 28
John 8
Revelation 21 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Romans 9
2Corinthians 11
Galatians 1 Other Witnesses: Ron, you blatantly lied in this email:
From : "ronjohnston1@email" I put the web site up in the fall of 1999, Wendell joined me on the web writing in 2002 and has been a great help. I understood over 20 years ago that the heads on the beast were Papal leadership. Many people believed this truth since that time. But it took time to put it all together. Ron From POGM: You have been preaching this for him since Firetalk days. Why is it you always speak as if YOU found this message? Is he aware of this? And what's his name? I would like to converse with him. Ron... you yourself said, YOU DIDN'T WRITE THIS MESSAGE you preach in the beginning of this email. Yet, your so called "prophet" announces to you that YOU shall stand as an instructor of all men in that dream? Should not the man in the center be the original researcher? Wasn't he the one that received the message?? Truth is, the demon in Nihar knows that you have glorified yourself so much already since 1999 regarding this message that it will be greatly accepted by you if a "prophetic dream" from a false prophet mentions YOU personally in a favorable way.
And why is it that the originator isn't preaching this message if in fact God gave it to him in the first place? 2.) I prayed and asked the Lord for you to ADMIT to me once again (this time in writing) that this is not your message. I needed this to expose you and this message for future souls that cross my path after crossing yours. But you actually did one better, you admitted it, and then shared with me some demonic activity that you are engrossed in regarding same. For that I am greatly saddened as I had hoped it would not go this far. All I really required was your admission of guilt regarding the lie that you wrote this message on your own. I never expected such an admission as this though. Again, I am saddened that you have allowed this so much power over you. And when I approached you in your chat room and asked you to admit that this message was from another man, MANY TIMES you evaded the question until one day you finally admitted it before dozens of witnesses in Firetalk in my room. That day was the day you saw MANY investigate the Truths I shared from the Bible concerning this, and the lies you shared. MANY walked away from you shaking their heads in shame feeling so violated by you. ...Nicholas www.RemnantofGod.org
Other "errors" "Of means (out of) not after. Why would God be so redundant as to repeat himself. Should it be worded the beast is the 8th, meaning following the 7th. Why did God states the beast is the 8th and added and is of the 7." Now why would God be so redundant as to repeat Himself....? My understanding that the overlapping and mingling of the eighteen vision prophecies in Daniel and Revelation, are replete with "redundancy" from God. Why do you assume that God needs to say anything only "once"? Why do you even raise up the issue of this being "redundant"...who made an issue of this being "redundant"? And who has ever said that God, being redundant was wrong? God is being redundant and Ron doesn't like it, so Ron thinks he can change the meaning of God's words to suit himself.
Ron writes; Well Ron, the only sites I have seen that attack, that have anything valid in their statements, are those attacking your site, and not attacking mine. Personally, I have not "searched out" other sites that are "attacking" but I am witness to watching YOU post your trash and errors along with my research, and then others "attack" using the "trash and errors" that you posted as evidence of their reason to "attack". You made certain of that attack by your post.
Ron quote; No Ron, I do not teach the "5 angles" (sic) messages in Rev 14. I teach the "Third Angel's Message" as it was intended to be taught:
I follow by that same principle: I DO LIKEWISE!!! And as long as you remain so ignorant, and so stupid, and so PROUD of promoting your differences and promoting your errors, I will continue to expose your errors and try to prevent some of the damage that you are so BELLIGERENTLY INSIST ON CAUSING. YOU CLEAN UP ALL THAT ERROR ON YOUR SITE AND NO ONE WILL EVER NEED TO SEE "ME" ATTACK YOUR FALSE TEACHINGS!!! I ENTERED THIS TASK OF ATTACKING ERRORS THAT PRECEDED THIS RESEARCH AND PREDOMINATE IN THE BELIEFS OF ADVENTISTS, AND THAT INCLUDES YOURS!!!!
Ron writes; Ron, We do NOT end up on the same road. The errors that you have attached to this research do NOT produce the same conclusion. I had fully written out the conclusion two years before you ever saw this research, and your conclusion stands in direct opposition to this original conclusion. That conclusion was never changed and the election of Benedict XVI completely confirmed that conclusion as having been the correct one. YOUR false conclusion, led to a failure in reaching your conclusions and thus led you to retract, and to return and "reinterpret" the prophecy to adjust it to fit your errors. Thus you have added even more derision to this research. The SENSE of "arguing the point" is to prevent others from following your path to error and DESTRUCTION. To "put aside" the differences is an acceptable "AGENDA" to someone who is teaching errors, because it allows their errors to continue. But it is not an acceptable agenda to someone who stands in defense of the truth. The Biblical example is "Truth exposes error". Your IGNORANCE includes your inability to perceive the dangerous path your false teachings lead to. It is apparent that you do not have a high regard for the truth because you have expressed that it is permissible to believe differently about the testimony of Jesus, which is the Spirit of Prophecy:
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 It appears that you have a long history of disregarding the truth. And what was Ron's response the day AFTER Benedict XVI was elected?
To: addvantage666@prodigy.net
It appears things did not go the way we thought they should go. So
I guess the study dies now. Do you have any suggestions. |
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